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Mercurial > hg > plan9front / lib/rob

changeset 7439: 9ad06889a5d1
parent: b9e0be574389
author: Ori Bernstein <ori@eigenstate.org>
date: Mon, 18 Nov 2019 01:06:02 -0800
permissions: -rw-r--r--
description: document 'T' flag misbehavior (thanks rgl)
1 all right all right all right!
2 so much for good intentions.
3 not quite...
4 It's easy to make serious mistakes in that situation.
5 I agree with some of the others here that the solution probably lies in external contributions from wise members of the community.
6 It's still a race.
7 Ditto.
8 A program exits when main exits.
9 That's just an error I will fix.
10 You could just drop the adjective.
11 I recommend that you fix your code now and be ready for the next release.
12 No.
13 I accept the argument about regularity but not the one about utility.
14 Every acme user around here uses the plan9port version.
15 There is no general solution but we are aware of the desire.
16 I'm not sure how that helps.
17 It's clumsy, I know, although it could be (and will one day be) done a little better.
18 I don't know what that means.
19 But what are you really trying to do?
20 I thought of a few ways but I refuse to write them down for fear people will use them.
21 It may be that another approach altogether is better.
22 Your assurances are incorrect.
23 When I look at your code I see a lot of unnecessary repetition.
24 Exactly.
25 Yes.
26 Poor choice. You went wrong at step 1.
27 Interesting idea, though.
28 if crypticness is the complaint, remember you're talking about a C compiler.
29 Thought I'd post this to a DOOM group.
30 There are no plans for a new release of Plan 9.
31 there are no pastel paints in the dungeons and dragons world
32 it's fitting that my first tweet had a typo.
33 There's nothing in computing that can't be broken by another level of indirection.
34 It's all happening.
35 I prefer deskside computers over laptops because they're much harder to throw in frustration when dealing with incompetent web sites.
36 I hear that C++0x is a substantially upgraded language.
37 People get annoyed when they must write two lines of code instead of one, but I don't. It's called programming.
38 localization (n.): the property that a program runs globally.
39 Fixes welcome.
40 The first lines of source code were added to Go in 1972.
41 You can all relax.
42 It's not my Mac Air's fault that the web is too damn slow.
43 This discussion isn't pin-headed enough yet.
44 The name Brazil was chosen because we wanted terminals with Fresnel lenses on goosenecks like the ones in the movie.
45 I don't see what the fuss is about.
46 when i was on sabbatical the university installed linux on the PC on my desk.
47 Apologies for the inconvenience.
48 Thanks.
49 Legal terminology is not the best medium for subtlety, so I've asked our lawyers for clarification.
50 Give us your address and we'll send Ken out to fix it. That's our technique.
51 This won't work.
52 Weekends are quiet, good for updating big software packages.
53 Web access is very important. Web browsers are very useful. But if you stop there, you're missing a lot of opportunity.
54 I'll send a fix in a while.
55 Plan 9 is non-standard and proud of it.
56 Perhaps I should explain better.
57 Here's a short version: Avoid complexity.
58 Why not?
59 Mea culpa.
60 Sorry, guys, but it's not quite a pure PC world, at least not yet.
61 True again.
62 This fixes your example, anyway.
63 Ptys were old and obsolete the day they were invented.
64 Kick back, relax. It's the information age.
65 Speaking as the portraitist, I believe I captured the personality rather well.
66 That's a little simplistic.
67 You don't have a user program running when you're trying to boot the kernel.
68 The last pieces of this design space have not been explored.
69 Feel free to delete it.
70 It's surprising what's surprising.
71 You should delete some mail.
72 Algorithms everywhere, and not a byte to send.
73 This is idiocy.
74 Yes, precisely.
75 Difficult administration results in incorrect or inadequate installation.
76 Use something distinctive.
77 It's easy if you have the spec.
78 Of course it does.
79 I've been thinking of sending this information to 9fans for a while.
80 I'm a little disturbed by these questions.
81 This question has been answered.
82 No, there is no solution.
83 Other systems claim to have solutions but they are exaggerating.
84 I was trying to tell you the way to do it.
85 Awful.
86 Not exactly.
87 In this context, I don't feel it's ambiguous.
88 By tradition, the return value of functions report what they did, not what they considered doing.
89 Sigh.
90 Whoops... Incomplete instructions.
91 I would like to understand this.
92 I would think mouse chords would be singularly ineffective on the Mac.
93 Anyone willing to help?
94 Don't be stupid.
95 Unnecessary, anyway.
96 Actually I mistyped.
97 If it's just between you and your server, go for it.
98 I'd really like someone to clean the mess up (hint, hint).
99 Hell has nothing to do with it.
100 False.
101 I think you misrepresent the purpose of security. Its role is to prevent us getting work done.
102 So the rule of security is the following: if you are able to work on something other than security, your system is insecure.
103 Those days [of "one tool doing one job well"] are dead and gone and the eulogy was delivered by Perl.
104 I'll alert the media.
105 Unix never says `please.'
106 The secretaries don't understand me.
107 Sometimes when you fill a vacuum, it still sucks.
108 If you think awk is the perfect programming language for the problem, you don't understand the problem yet.
109 There's no such thing as a simple cache bug.
110 A great deal of agonizing and very little decisiveness went into resolving this issue
111 Caches aren't architecture, they're just optimization.
112 People admire complexity.
113 Bite my shiny metal ass.
114 iOS4.3 lets you decide whether the side switch is mute or rotate lock. Operating system innovations never cease.
115 If you can't do something right, sometimes it's not worth doing at all.
116 Once idea that comes to mind is to show us a reproducible example.
117 The API has indeed changed.
118 I suppose the documentation should mention this.
119 I'm a radical here, but I think if a machine is paging, you've lost.
120 So again, why?
121 I guess I'm dim.
122 In the good old days, copyright notices meant something.
123 ouch
124 It doesn't matter what the bug is, someone will depend on it.
125 We're still working on it.
126 Write less code.
127 Would a Plan 9 user please provide an accurate status report of the state of the Go port to the system?
128 I wasn't asking about 9front.
129 Your "why bother?" question is a good one.
130 Your question is answered by the FAQ entry.
131 Hip hip hooray.
132 Go gets mocked a lot.
133 I am done here.
134 What's jQuery?
135 It's possible but not by writing a single line of code.
136 Your "mathematically more correct" claim sounds fishy.
137 This statement demonstrates a profound misunderstanding.
138 I guess that wasn't very helpful.
139 The proposed fix is perhaps not the best one.
140 It's only an issue on mailing lists and discussion groups.
141 Let me put in a word about the Apple wireless trackpad.
142 Nothing.
143 Using Unix is the computing equivalent of listening only to music by David Cassidy.
144 I assume that the reader is familiar with the UNIX tools.
145 You missed a spot.
146 This is Go.
147 I didn't violate anything. I made a suggestion.
148 At least in Go the behavior is well defined.
149 What is the average length of time the phrase"Time remaining: Less than a minute" lingers on an Apple screen?
150 acme is unobtainable at the moment.
151 I don't understand what your issue is.
152 It's so trivial it could be a few lines of shell script, unless I'm missing something.
153 There is no such feature.
154 Go is not C.
155 I don't understand the bug report.
156 The Go 1 compatibility promise holds us back.
157 No. The "No" in "no changes" means no.
158 Be very careful.
159 You almost never need xargs.
160 Actually I was hoping to stop at least my end of the dialog.
161 I like to think of a function as a function. But that's just me.
162 Ummm, don't do that?
163 I say not now.
164 I don't understand what you're saying here as a response to what I said.
165 I defer to the experts.
166 It's really not clear what the right long-term solution is.
167 Why do by hand what a machine can do just as well or better?
168 please don't ask; we're working on it
169 I don't understand why you keep beating on this.
170 It's nice to be in a position where people apologize because they assume there's humor in your work, based on past experience, but they're not sure where it is.
171 all sounds fine to me.
172 Oh man, do I miss my red Swiss mouse.
173 Of course, this may change.
174 The real answer lies in further research.
175 please don't e-mail us.
176 I just live with unaligned comments.
177 Why should I?
178 I sense a conspiracy.
179 I leave it to you to find a way to correct the problem.
180 We'll never agree.
181 I suggest a different compromise: you do whatever you want, we ignore you. Deal?
182 Read the manuals.
183 I disagree.
184 My toaster runs KRONOS.
185 Why did Peter Weiner register plan9.com?
186 Thank you for adding support to my position. I really appreciate it.
187 The only document that claims Plan 9 runs in 4 megabytes is the FAQ on our home page.
188 We are using other techniques now.
189 What's wrong with forking processes?
190 I know what versioning is, it's "vendoring" that I don't recognize as a term.
191 Let's leave it at that.
192 This conversation has run its course.
193 Remember, the language is not the point here, it's the implementation.
194 Nothing is worth spending a week with bureaucratic Germans.
195 Caches are bugs waiting to happen.
196 The hermeneutics of naming yields few insights.
197 What difference does it make whether it's an "object-oriented language"?
198 Why not just use a URL shortener?
199 Remember this?
200 three programmers go into a bar. the sam user is there because he's finished the day's work and wants to relax. the vi user is there because he's going to be working all night and needs a break. the emacs user is there because there's nothing else he can do: both his hands are in splints because of carpal tunnel syndrome.
201 Oh yeah, great: eye tracking and mind reading.
202 Certainly not.
203 It's a terrible idea.
204 First, check your errors.
205 I second that!
206 Ha ha.
207 Let the machine do the work.
208 I'm not going back in there.
209 Advertisers.
210 I'm not used to success.
211 Not needed.
212 2106 is a long time from now.
213 Why does this matter?
214 Does anyone know of a version of sam for Windows that will run on 64-bit installations?
215 Great, thanks.
216 I used to be a physicist.
217 Please file an issue at golang.org/issue/new
218 There is no simple definition for what people want.
219 One man's toy is another's real system, and every tool adds to the arsenal.
220 There is no problem in computer science that cannot be solved by another JSON configuration file.
221 Anything important enough to be in a dot-file is important enough not to be in a dot-file.
222 Again, please read the blog post I cited.
223 Experiment!
224 Live and learn.
225 Something else may happen one day.
226 I don't know what the right answer is.
227 If it's not worth doing well, it's not worth doing at all.
228 Manual is wrong.
229 The Plan 9 FAQ needs work.
230 In another 24 years, programmers will learn how to use malloc.
231 Use a tool.
232 Please define 'trouble'.
233 I just noticed that Glenda, the Plan 9 bunny, has a body the same shape as Tor Johnson's head.
234 I must admit I find the fissiparous nature of the Open Source/FSF community a little dispiriting.
235 Thanks for saying that.
236 Is this a bug fix?
237 I disagree with the premise.
238 I speak from experience here.
239 It's not how many features that matter, it's how the features interact.
240 Just write the code.
241 Looks like a bug.
242 And now we have diverged so far from the original question that we can safely ignore it.
243 I oversold due to fading memory. But I stand by the fundamental point.
244 Although there may be specific examples where generated output is uninteresting, deciding whether to read code based entirely on whether a computer or a human wrote it doesn't seem a good general principle to me.
245 Short answer: No.
246 None of that is excusable, only true.
247 File an issue?
248 The documentation is clearly insufficient.
249 You don't say anything about the problem beyond "it doesn't work".
250 Can you be a little more specific please?
251 Working as intended.
252 That's a shame.
253 Nothing has changed.
254 Correct as written. Maybe badly written, but correct.
255 Does it make a difference?
256 One more thing.
257 That's odd.
258 Nothing in Go is accidental.
259 Go was supposed to be a fresh start.
260 Ken and I ported Plan 9 to the SPARC in 6 days over one fun Christmas break.
261 I told the truth as I saw it.
262 Wait, teletypes are finally gone so we need *pseudo* teletypes?
263 I started complaining about this long ago and nobody cared then, either.
264 It is very unlikely to change.
265 Don't do that.
266 This is just me speaking, not the Go team.
267 Go doesn't have it.
268 Even the simplest changes can be disruptive.
269 Feels like the wrong solution to me.
270 Copying source just leads to confusion.
271 More discussion is required.
272 What are you really trying to do?
273 I wrote a book about this once; I recommend it.
274 I just thought it would be nice.
275 My recent incompetence is humbling. I should quit the industry.
276 Three cheers for dropping things that are too complex.
277 Great.
278 This is one special case.
279 This slippery slope is long and steep. I'd prefer not to take the first step.
280 All that aside, the rule works very well in practice.
281 dot dot dot
282 Sounds nice.
283 Yes.
284 It is legal.
285 At MIT the server is the unit of invention.
286 Nothing is wrong here.
287 Да!
288 Noted.
289 нет.
290 THIS OPUS LACKS PERSPICACITY
291 THIS INCHOATE EMISSION DOES NOT ADUMBRATE CONSUMMATION
292 OK I'll stop now.
293 Russ is prepping some words about what's happening.
294 I will fix.
295 Feature requests will be ignored.
296 I would call that a bug.
297 Feel free to file an issue.
298 I really dislike knobs in APIs.
299 ???
300 What's wrong with the obvious?
301 I am dyspeptic.
302 I do not.
303 The Yacc grammar was translated by sam-powered hands.
304 Turning off comments.
305 This is unfortunate.
306 NaN is unfortunate.
307 No we can't.
308 go away
309 You misinterpreted my suggestion.
310 Not a great situation, I admit.
311 I do not understand your criticism.
312 If you want to do the work, I will review the results.
313 Now, this is one of the things where the guy who blogged about me being a world-class jackass missed the point.
314 Please drop this.
315 Maybe yes, maybe no.
316 Please be respectful in this forum.
317 It sounds reasonable and should be easy enough to implement.
318 There is a widespread assumption that garbage collection and kernels cannot coexist but history shows a number of examples that demonstrate otherwise.
319 Speaking as a one-time kernel writer, I would have loved to have garbage collection available inside the kernel. Hell, half the code in the kernel is tied to memory management.
320 Thanks for the report.
321 It takes precautions but there are no guarantees.
322 What is the problem you are trying to solve?
323 Please be civil.
324 I think this would be a mistake.
325 Go's interfaces were designed to solve particular problems.
326 Go is not the product of a Whiggish development process.
327 complexity is multiplicative
328 i always intended to fix the problem; i never saw how.
329 apologies.
330 The choice cannot be explained, only understood.
331 Indeed.
332 i see no bug here.
333 I support the idea of unrecorded talks.
334 We do not accept patches
335 Syntax highlighting is juvenile.
336 Working as designed.
337 I've written programs with twenty implementations of io.Reader inside.
338 Who cares? Shut up.
339 What is wrong with my analysis?
340 I just want to explain something.
341 I recommend in the strongest terms that you don't do this.
342 Sockets are the X windows of IO interfaces.
343 Ignore what I wrote.
344 In other words, here's how to do it but don't do it.
345 I did indeed.
346 I don't understand what you mean by 'reset'.
347 I am, and as far as I can tell it makes no difference whatsoever.
348 Please put this silly objection to rest. It has no merit.
349 Interpretations will vary.
350 I think the pattern used well is perfectly acceptable in certain situations.
351 Like everything that attracts scrutiny, the key point is to use the idea well: safely, clearly, correctly, and only when appropriate.
352 I am not trying to be difficult, but you must understand it's not simple to address your question.
353 One step at a time.
354 Thanks for grinding through those.
355 Hardware has stopped getting faster. Software has not stopped getting slower.
356 Ah, right.
357 I disagree.
358 There is little meaningful difference between bad style and bad practice.
359 It's come up before.
360 Ah, nice. the woodpeckers are back.
361 I recently got the idiotically named but otherwise very well designed, quiet, and comfortable Apple Magic Keyboard.
362 It sounds like a mistake to me.
363 What a lovely vacuous platitude.
364 That is unhelpful.
365 Reports of the death of Research are greatly exaggerated.
366 There are already courses being taught in `feminist science' and the trend is sure to continue.
367 Not quite.
368 Please file an issue.
369 I'm not convinced there is a "why" other than "that's what happens".
370 Working as intended.
371 Awwww. Sniff.
372 The operation is not to copy but to snarf. It's called snarf because snarf is what it does. There is no design document.
373 Automatically deciding what's important in a program's dependencies is not easy.
374 Thanks
375 Yes, one could, and that would be a stylistic decision.
376 Best not to promote the bad idea.
377 Nil means nothing.
378 People often spend too much time worrying about the things that don't matter.
379 Often the reason something was done is more important than what was done.
380 I believe this is not a Go issue.
381 Are you running Xcode 8.3?
382 I don't think so.
383 Yup.
384 Code comments can be helpful with unusual situations like this.
385 The key word is simple.
386 If I could, I would disallow it altogether.
387 I completely disagree.
388 I say leave it alone.
389 I wasn't speaking metaphorically.
390 A nil map is like a regular map but it has nothing in it, cannot grow, and takes zero space.
391 We live in a digital dark age.
392 Neither of your issues is a problem.
393 Your ideas may make people happy, which is not a small thing, but do they really help?
394 What's this? https://plan9.io/
395 Consistency is a better explanation.
396 Code can move.
397 You might find blog.golang.org/constants helpful.
398 Over time, everything gets better but also worse and always bigger and more complex.